Jack we’re talking about your first reading general ha and First I’d like to know what did you read I read Sunday. But the story of rugby’s new superstar. Yep. And what is it What’s that about this, about an up and coming league player who is from New Zealand and moved to Ozzie and you’ve run wrekin’s he should come over to Union and that’s what he wants to do. And he he’s chasing the all black during and yeah and so doesn’t concentrate on that decision or is about. I spent a long period. I think a main chunk of it is about that decision, but it does carry on to go on like further and then when he’s in the Alexa carries on as well. So can you tell me a bit of a bit of background about the difference between the Rugby League and the rugby union world. Okay, so rugby league like it’s it’s an ASEAN it’s more it’s more it’s more like the American sports where it’s a lot of trading in Soma it’s all to do with money like Sonny billion like see it and quoted that he doesn’t have much decision of where he plays and stuff for professional league and rugby, and he wants to get their freedom and so he wants to like make the move out of rugby rugby league interact with union yeah and then equally what’s rugby union like by comparison.

I think you get a bit more freedom, but I think I guess that’s kind of where where you grew up and stuff that’s we genuinely play. So in the case of union, you still mainly are playing in the provinces all the regions yet that you

grew up yeah that you haven’t association

is that always true. No. In some cases like you, you could like be picked up by another team, like for example, there’s a lot of North Highland players that have come down to play for the Highland doesn’t come down to. Yeah. So

now they these games professional. Is there a difference in money bomb on get more for being a league player or you definitely get more plainly right so when signing bills making this choice. He’s

choosing to end up with less money yeah I think he is I think he’s also trying to get into the All Blacks, which might actually be more money than just the NRL a bit but pines Super Rugby doesn’t doesn’t give him as much money as the in our world. So I guess this kind of three stages with superfit love Super 18 doesn’t have as much money in in our real has got more and then the open says even what what is the book say about what his motives are for change. Um, okay, so he he wants to help us family. I guess with a lot of money can see didn’t grow up like that. Well, he wants to make is fairly proud and I think he just wants to kind of make a statement how love rugby players should be free, I guess.

So when you say free. You mean free to choose which team you play for yeah yeah exactly free to free to choose was to play for and freezing like

most of your decisions by yourself and yeah

and so what was the reaction when he chose to change codes.

He differently when he did change. He definitely did get a lot of, I guess, high from the league league players they kind of

seen leaders to his family and to him like a lot of like bed things in Santa. Here’s a coward and stuff for leaving, but he only seen by was that he wasn’t a Kaldi here so you seen here. Those quite a gutsy move because he was trying to stand up for a lot of other rugby players and his family himself. So, and as we know as times pass his old black yeah that the timing make the decision. There was no guarantee of that was it. No, no, he was risking it so I agree with him personally. I agree that that was caught a ballsy move and see it as being an accountant,

do you think that is a that his preference for which game he prefers to play from purely personal sportsman point of view made as a factor in the decision not yes he has a preference for one game on the other. I know for sure that he definitely prefers for and Virginian right i think that may have had says that in the book yet but sees it, and the book right he

definitely definitely had a big part and the change, but think or so it was like, come back like to his family, his family out and stuff.

So when you say come back to us and it does that mean also living close

living close to his family as like seem very prideful when he moved back to him and he came there any Casey he actually went to France to make a bit of money. Then he came back right so he he came back, obviously, to he played for the Crusaders and Canterbury it in capitalism and then obviously we to the blues. Yeah, yeah.

So the

when you reflect on that initial stage of making those decisions. How does that influence you when you make decisions about yourself and school or make you think about what should you end up having to make decisions that is whether it’s happened in the past or whether it might happen in the future

I influenced by the way, um, I guess I am iconic gives me. It gives me an idea of what to expect. I guess about books will do that for me but I’m like if I went into the into professional rugby which I’d like to do, and I didn’t know that it was lots of doors like getting traded and stuff, then I could I could be quite shocked Ronan. And do

you think that there are things beyond being a good player that affect people’s success.

What do you mean.

So one of the things that might seem obvious is that if you’re a strong player with good statistics in a strong history and you demonstrate good skills amongst on the field with that would be enough. But one of the things that I’m curious about as if it becomes a commercial situation with trading and cost, then maybe you might good player but too expensive via and therefore attain might not judge you to be a good investment. Haha. And so, so does that make sense does that sort of thing happen

there. So can you explain it to me in this book actually they delete, delete players were saying that there were talking to the union players that he’s he’s a $1 million player like you’ve got to buy him for a million dollars over and over the Union, the union managers and stuff for a lot as a lot. And when I came to the green and he was right. So that’s where he got his

his money off like is yeah so to become a $1 million player.

What does that involve to say I’m hoping a successful sportsman or another aspect is a lot of attitude, but I think right

like team man like you’ve got to get a loan for your teammates and big like like oh round team my person got to come with a good attitude to try you

do you think I don’t know if this is true or not. So I’m I’m honestly asking do you think that I think about someone like Sonny Bill Williams in a kind of


notoriety that he has is a well known figure and sport and therefore because he’s in the media is and magazines and newspapers and TV and on the internet, then perhaps people would see him as a good investment because he attracts attention. Yeah, and therefore attracts revenue for your sponsors. Yes,

and I sense and that’s actually nothing to do with how well you play directly. Is it possible that kind of work like no like it could because obviously attracts a lot more people to, you know, like, turn the TV on, you know, watch the team builder like comes in these and stuff will be getting more money, I guess. But, um, I think one of the main thing that actually did get him quite notice was he made quite a big mistake when he like came out of rugby league and when it came in and was about to go on the obeys tour and he got I think he was trying really hard and he got drunken medalists silly mistake of some sort and

what happened

not necessarily what do you do, but what was the result of that, or the consequence. Um, I think, I think he wasn’t allowed to go but he was just he was so disappointed himself when he I think he learned a lot from that. That’s like the main thing that Ellen quiet life Britain renowned I guess right was the mistake and then he kind of just learn from there and build on that. And

so that’s quite interesting isn’t it because, in a way, what you’re saying is to do something wrong, you could end up being more successful yeah

that is kind of the

kind of a weird way to think of it, it makes him almost more of a media star was. Yeah. So I think Sonny Bill is a lot a lot of his focuses for attention. Yeah, I think, and

and that’s where he gets his money yeah like if you’re a million dollar player than the thing that these the corporate aspect of the sport is going to say is, how is he going to bring more than a million dollars into our sport in order for us to be able to afford to Pam and things like that. Don’t just happened through winning games. Unfortunately, do they know. So how would that be for you. What if that became an issue. Maybe you are up against another player and selection for attain and the other player had a really big social media presence and was getting sponsorships and you weren’t and you felt that the selection could be based on that as much as it’s based on your skills as a player. Okay, so we will be still ahead like the same skills. Yeah. Okay, so this is a major imaginary yeah yes

so i think i wouldn’t try force myself to do anything different. I would like force myself to like this is on a personal level was forced myself to try and get a teachers, doctors could obviously stuff me up in many ways. So I think, how could it like you could you could say something dumb on social media and you like get a lot of hype for and stuff yeah anyways I’m not necessarily a debt but his mistake work. Yeah, exactly, but I think these days to like when it’s getting more and more serious and think like a conical lid off quite easily. But he didn’t make he didn’t make quite a big mistake. And I think if he did that nowadays to be much bigger consequences. Yeah.

How do you feel interesting and how do you feel about the idea though that specialness a little bit that to be successful sports person. You also have to be a successful media person


personally I don’t really agree on that because I do and sunny bills case but not for everyone because Can you give me an example of someone like for example site goes good looking. Yeah.

And I don’t think but that’s irrelevant. Does that make sense elegant should be. Yeah, but I don’t think it is. Yeah. So can you give me an example of someone who perhaps is successful ones for purely through

being successful as a sports person

has been Smith, tell me about him, he he grew up in donating didn’t he just no one really knew about and you can just kick on through the grades. He doesn’t really he uses social media that he doesn’t like it doesn’t really hit like many followers now really like, follow us on social media and Stephanie that doesn’t post often and stuff and he and he’s just the hierarchy, I guess, and that’s what makes him one of the best he just does his hard work and

So which of the two players would you align yourself more closely to

or a war which What can you learn from each of them it doesn’t worry me. Yeah,

I’d like to say it because it’d been Smith, because obviously I played the same position. Isn’t that kind of base my my my playing style often iOS or in DC great like person good role model. Yeah. So, has he a good role model and how might that be different to someone like signing okay so Sonny

Sonny Boy, I guess he’s kind of he’s a great person stuff he he kinda

he he tries to many things I guess I he’s he’s quite risky

on the field and off the field as Sean. I think that’s a good thing. In some circumstances, but I think being Smith’s just really loved modest humble kind of design thing helps lighthouse a team out and stuff and sort of Sonny Bill obviously because he’s because he’s a great team player. That’s why I wanted. Yeah. And do you think that someone like Ben Smith could succeed and in our out if he had the skills to they say yes as a character. I think you could because

yeah I see, I see getting it. Um, I think if he we know that was the incarnate no dis on all these but if you live there for a few years, maybe he can pick out so the traits and I think disappointment to

mind because I respect him as a person, but um so so what you’re saying to me, which I find pleasing is that and the in the sport is still mainly about the sports yet I guess it’s just two different types of rugby. I like both yeah

but also that you succeed through being a great player and a great, great team member. Yeah, and that the media side of it is so add on. Yeah, an essential part of the plan. Yeah, and things like to also add that these days in media is getting so much bigger like social media and everything. And I think that the more you try stay away from it because

like I said before, you could just like you should make some if like if you say one wrong thing like that packet often go viral. Just like recently Israel cloud was being complacent some really fruit thing about being homosexual and guy and it’s just going crazy. Was he deserves.

So it’s thinking there is have you been sponsored before.

Let’s say you were Alyssa as a small sponsorship like a clothing sponsorship from someone so they provide all your yeah and all that requires that you were which is fine didn’t show up. But the thing is that you grateful to them for doing that

and they would hope that they would see you photograph for the newspaper and you have a bit of a profile. And yes, maybe. Yeah, because that’s how they can benefit to their sponsorship. How would you feel about that. Well then, what would that be something you’d want to get yourself involved and I feel like I would rather get myself involved more on not so much the social media have a more ads. I think a lot of money is made of light. You see, Richie McCaw who’s another prime example of person who doesn’t use social media and he’s just on lots of resources right funny to say any he’s he’s promoting his sponsors like that yeah it’s it’s more it’s more than that say no to a sponsor here. You didn’t agree with.

I think if I had a choice between two

are on the path of life. Yeah. Only obviously the one that I agree with, but it fills my first sponsor been other no that’d be a tough decision. I think

based on reading Sonny Bill Williams book do you think that anything he’s done could guide you in a decision

like that. Like is there something you could refer to to say if I’m in that situation. What choice, where I’m like,

because I think it’s hard to make these choices when you’re actually faced with them. Yeah, it’s easy to talk about it in terms of what other people do I feel like if I if I was a sticky situation like Sally Bill and I hit to between like so far as playing rugby union and I’d say I had a girlfriend in Australia and family over the end and I think I’d like make the decision, like in you know just stand up for family and for rugby as well. Switching maybe two to rugby league yeah for something so so things like family. Yeah,

I think it is like the base factor and like no made it like I guess

I love sports and I think I loved union more opposed to come down to family being

back a bit. Yeah. Is there anything else you want to add

nothing of thinking about everything out there wasn’t like you go. Thanks.

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